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 Post subject: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Thank Gordon fookin Brown and this labour sham of a government. There is now going to be a £15 extra charge on all motoring fines to help pay for the victim compensation t fund, this is to be extended to all motoring penalties including parking and fixed penalty fines.

Just how can they justify hitting us with surcharge on victimless crimes that are only there in the first place as revenue earners for a government that’s almost bankrupt us all. Roll on March when they will be booted out of no 10!


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Labour stealth tax for motorists


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:17 pm 
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easy target mate. i've got a worryin feeling they won't be out unfortunately. its just rediculous. i for one want out of this hell hole....but unfortunately the missus see's canada as too far :-(


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Instead of vcitimless offences like speeding (lets face it if you do hit someone by speeding and there is a victim, you'll be getting more than a fixed penalty anyway) they should have a compensation charge for uninsured drivers. us who pay insurance see ever increasing premiums because off accidents with uninsured cars, if you caught the police should get all your details, get an insurance quote for you (use one company for fairness), then double it as a fine. At the moment for young drivers, getting caught 3 times is still cheaper. Also driving with no licence, how can putting points on a licence be a detterent to someone who clearly feels he don't need one?


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:17 pm 
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you do know that if you don't actually break the law in anyways as to cause the need for a fine to be imposed on you then this wont actually effect you


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:23 pm 
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Yes I know that, the ones who get away with it the most are the ones who clearly don't care. Theres alot of chavs who rack up enough points to get banned before they turn 17, then they'll have to wait 5 years to take test, by then its even more points as they still getting caught, so as they have so many points they know they'll never get to the point of having a license clean enough to do test, so just drive anyway. They're the peole who should be hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:09 pm 
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it's not just speeding offences or such like. Its penalties when your a minute past your parking time, or when you get a ticket even thou your loading and was actualy inside getin the bits to load-up.

It's a shame theres no 'join' in the national community to revolt against this anymore, i know that the vast majority would love to do it, but wouldn't ever revolt because their scared they will end up goin it alone.

The MP's are goin on about this being a classless society...but infact all there doin is dividing it more and more.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:39 pm 
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coupe-moe wrote:
want out of this hell hole....but unfortunately the missus see's canada as too far :-(


Work on the patience muscle if Canada's your goal, 5 year (or longer) wait is not uncommon whilst waiting for the Visa's etc - unless you've a mate on the inside ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:07 pm 
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the funny thing is a lot of judge's don't want this as the money from this surcharge will goto victims of other crimes rather than car related ones. so again it will be the motorist paying for everything again :aargh


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:03 am 
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Hig wrote:
you do know that if you don't actually break the law in anyways as to cause the need for a fine to be imposed on you then this wont actually effect you

And do you know the old saying "he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Either way just tell me who is affected by a driver coming home from his late shift on an empty road who just creeps over the speed limit by 3mph and gets flashed by a gatso? Hig your patronising response shows your age and obvious lack of undersatnding about the principles of this surcharge. When you've overstayed your parking by 5 minutes and all of a sudden your fine goes up 50% from £30 to £45 and you come on here whingeing that you poor student types have been ripped off by this government I'm sure you'll begin to understand the complete injustice this surcharge represents. Unless of course you never have or never will have gone over the speed limit or your parking time or parked on the wrong side of the road or drove with a side light/brake light out or used your phone while driving or changed your radio station or had a drink/something to eat etc etc, I'm sure you get the point.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Unless of course you never have or never will have gone over the speed limit or your parking time or parked on the wrong side of the road or drove with a side light/brake light out or used your phone while driving or changed your radio station or had a drink/something to eat etc etc, I'm sure you get the point.


not gone over parking time, not parked on wrong side of the road, never used my phone never had a drink and drove never changed radio station as I listen to CD's ... nah am pretty much covered, my common sense kicked it at an earlier stage ... yes I do get your little point that you are trying to make, and I understand that they shouldn't keep lumping money on to what we pay ... but at the end of the day, I abide by the law so as far as I'm concerned the charges don't effect me, therefore don't particularly bother me, so I therefore shall not be making an un-necessary fuss :)


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:29 pm 
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Hig wrote:
Quote:
Unless of course you never have or never will have gone over the speed limit or your parking time or parked on the wrong side of the road or drove with a side light/brake light out or used your phone while driving or changed your radio station or had a drink/something to eat etc etc, I'm sure you get the point.


not gone over parking time, not parked on wrong side of the road, never used my phone never had a drink and drove never changed radio station as I listen to CD's ... nah am pretty much covered, my common sense kicked it at an earlier stage ... yes I do get your little point that you are trying to make, and I understand that they shouldn't keep lumping money on to what we pay ... but at the end of the day, I abide by the law so as far as I'm concerned the charges don't effect me, therefore don't particularly bother me, so I therefore shall not be making an un-necessary fuss :)



y'know there's something inside of me that hopes on your way home tonight (even though you checked all your lights before setting off) your brake bulb blows and a copper who's had a really bad day gives you a fine for it. nothing personal, just think it may make you question that "I'm perfect" pedistal you've put yourself on.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:41 pm 
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the amount of brake lights I have I doubt they'd bother :rollin


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:15 pm 
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your whole back of your car could light up, but if 1 of the two that are required by law has a problem your car's illegal.

My point, and everyone elses point, which is also the one that you're not quite accepting, persumably because your perfect, or that you like to argue for the sake of arguing making you far from the perfection you think you are?, is that everyone makes mistakes, and some of these are classed as illegal.

so your brake light goes off while you are driving, you still have the massive one streching across your spoiler so it's not dangerous, but you get pulled for it and have to pay a fine, and £15 towards compensating the victims of your crime.. so where is your £15 going? I' cant work out who the victim is here?

your not wearing your seatbelt, can you keep the £15 because actually when it boils down to it you're going to be the victim of your crime?


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:23 pm 
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LiDL wrote:
Hig wrote:
Quote:
Unless of course you never have or never will have gone over the speed limit or your parking time or parked on the wrong side of the road or drove with a side light/brake light out or used your phone while driving or changed your radio station or had a drink/something to eat etc etc, I'm sure you get the point.


not gone over parking time, not parked on wrong side of the road, never used my phone never had a drink and drove never changed radio station as I listen to CD's ... nah am pretty much covered, my common sense kicked it at an earlier stage ... yes I do get your little point that you are trying to make, and I understand that they shouldn't keep lumping money on to what we pay ... but at the end of the day, I abide by the law so as far as I'm concerned the charges don't effect me, therefore don't particularly bother me, so I therefore shall not be making an un-necessary fuss :)



y'know there's something inside of me that hopes on your way home tonight (even though you checked all your lights before setting off) your brake bulb blows and a copper who's had a really bad day gives you a fine for it. nothing personal, just think it may make you question that "I'm perfect" pedistal you've put yourself on.


this little comment of urs is out of order, he never said he was perfect, he said he does not break the law, i know hig very well so i know he drives within the law.......all the time.....thats why i have to slow down so he catch up...........but never the less this comment of urs is childish and bangout of order


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:30 pm 
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I disagree completely, I was purely stating that you dont have to activly do something wrong in order for something to be illegal on your car, if your bulb blows mid drive you can be pulled over and you can be fined, therefore a valid counter argument for someone who says "I do everything legally fullstop"


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:34 pm 
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LiDL wrote:
I disagree completely, I was purely stating that you dont have to activly do something wrong in order for something to be illegal on your car, if your bulb blows mid drive you can be pulled over and you can be fined, therefore a valid counter argument for someone who says "I do everything legally fullstop"



disagree all you want, basically saying i hope you get pulled and fined by the coppers is out of order, if some 1 said it to you i think ud have somthing to say


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:44 pm 
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You're boiling it down to something it's not and taking it out of context.

the comment was made that an anonomous motorist can be affected without intentionally breaking the law, hig made it about himself stating that "HE" would never be affected because "HE" cant be falulted on the road, a list of things was given which maybe he hadn't thought about was listed to which he again stated "HE" was perfect and it would never happen.. I simply stated a case using HIS example which I would have hoped he would have thought, "yeah that would suck"..

there's no point discussing this really, as from his comment before your complaint shows he's taken the comment in the way it was intended and that is a point made without malice.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:51 pm 
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to save any drama on the forums ill let this drop......just read b4 you post things plz, that comment looked like baiting to me and im sure a few others!


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:06 pm 
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All you would have to do is make sure you check all your lights before you go anywhere and if a bulb happens to blow whilst you are making your trip and you're pulled, you notify the nice policeman that you checked all your lights before you set off. Also if you make sure you carry spare bulbs with you in the event of this happening, then the police will allow you to change the faulty bulb and nothing more will come of it, thus saving any fine. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:12 pm 
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im waaaaay to dis-organised for that :lol

AAAANYHOW - when does this come into force? is it still being talked about?


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:12 pm 
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A few things, if this doesn’t affect you and never will and you “abide by the law so as far as I'm concerned the charges don't effect me, therefore don't particularly bother me, so I therefore shall not be making an un-necessary fuss” why bother to come on the thread in the first place with your provocative patronising chavvy comments? It’s comments like yours Hig that have seen this site go downhill lately and less people bother to use it at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:20 pm 
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i think we should all take a step back ere(including me) and just (as the chavs say) chillax, or should we open a forum solely so we can beat the sh!t out of each other ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:27 pm 
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If you have a comment about a post then comment, if you agree or disagree with it then say, don’t just pop up and spout garbage just for the sake of shouting “look at me look at me I’m perfect I am”!


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Albert Tatlock wrote:
If you have a comment about a post then comment, if you agree or disagree with it then say, don’t just pop up and spout garbage just for the sake of shouting “look at me look at me I’m perfect I am”!



you aiming this at me????


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:32 pm 
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No not particularly, I wasn’t aware you’d posted on here that you were perfect. Just to quote you “just read b4 you post things plz”.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Right guys, for god sake, lets just all calm down here, we should be past this now. We're all grownups here and should not resort to this. This IS a great forum and I'd like it to remain that way so lets drop this now.


Faz, that was not aimed at you mate.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Having to take the whole engine bay plastics and lights out in order to fit indicator bulbs for the front of the gen 3 (only to find I'd bought the wrong ones so had to rebuild the car get them replaced and then redo the process)... there's bob hope chance of me changing one of them at the roadside "sorry officer I'll take it to my nearest dealer" springs to mind.

generally if you're genuine and polite you're not going to get a fine in that situation no, a police officer pulling you over will be well aware that everyone makes mistakes

I was just trying to with an "it happens to everyone" example of a victimless crime that not one single one of us can say "that'll never happen to me", because, before anyone says it, even led bulbs fail, and ones that were only changed 20 mins ago.

the point is this extra charge was reserved for people who went to court to say they didnt do anything wrong and are found to have indeed, (I dont want to stereotype, but I'm going to, I find people who do go to court are the ones who do it all the time and are often on the dole and get free lawers, because a stint in court for the employed is much more than £60) and now it's looking like someone who accidently did something and owns up and says yeah, I'm sorry it's not something I intentionally set out to do, but I understand there are concequences so I'll pay the fine, are to be given the "common criminal tax" too.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Anyway back on topic; I found this reply to the subject and thought it summed thing up very well.

“I was done for speeding and guess how many of the other 6.8 billion people on this planet I harmed? English Common Law says crime is to cause injury, harm or loss, therefore no crime was ever committed. Nevertheless, the corporation that runs this country has dressed up 'acts' (the word says it all) to make you think they're laws and their only purpose is to raise revenue for this corporation. A speeding notice is a forced confession because they know photos are not evidence on their own. You filling in the form is what convicts you - and they have cleverly worded it to take away your right to silence. Police officers are little more than revenue collectors for the corporation - that's why they go where the money is not where the real crime is.”


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Albert Tatlock wrote:
Good find Mr T


:lol @ 3rd person talking

thats stupid though, really is


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Albert Tatlock wrote:
Anyway back on topic; I found this reply to the subject and thought it summed thing up very well.

“I was done for speeding and guess how many of the other 6.8 billion people on this planet I harmed? English Common Law says crime is to cause injury, harm or loss, therefore no crime was ever committed. Nevertheless, the corporation that runs this country has dressed up 'acts' (the word says it all) to make you think they're laws and their only purpose is to raise revenue for this corporation. A speeding notice is a forced confession because they know photos are not evidence on their own. You filling in the form is what convicts you - and they have cleverly worded it to take away your right to silence. Police officers are little more than revenue collectors for the corporation - that's why they go where the money is not where the real crime is.”



Good find Mr T

So in theory, if you get caught speeding, you need to admit to the crime by filling in the forms otherwise you possibly get away with it?


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:31 pm 
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androo007 wrote:
Albert Tatlock wrote:
Good find Mr T


:lol @ 3rd person talking

thats stupid though, really is



OOPS, edited Albert's post instead of quoting what he said...DOH. All fixed now lol :lol


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:35 pm 
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there must be a hole there. is there a law that state you MUST give details when asked for?? if there is then surely it would work the other way, the motorist asking for proof of calibration of the camera if appropriate, it's legitimacy, and proof that your number plates have NOT been cloned as this is all the info they have.

If we have to prove to them we wern't driving, surely they have to prove it was our actual car, of which there is only one way to do that and thats using the 'vin' number, which that alone is still not 100% as they have been known to be cloned, but they also cannot get from a camera flash


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Lol - thats better, a bit of humour and lightheartedness :lol I reckon that bit of unpleasentness in the middle there should be cleaned up as per The Site Guidelines.

:)

Damned rediculous taxation idea though - another revenue generator from the shambolic fogey club that 'runs' the country...


Last edited by Rik'n'Vik on Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:43 pm 
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If you claim its not your car then you have to prove you were elsewhere. My aunt had her Honda Jazz cloned and kept getting congestion charge fines sent to her which she strongly denied, not having been to central London for many years. It was only when she got a letter from the Hospice where she was visiting my dying uncle every day that she was cleared of any wrongdoing and they stopped sending her demands.

Unfortunately in this 'so called' democracy if the 'law' says you did it, YOU have to prove you didn't


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:19 pm 
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TBH I don't think it's about the individual getting caught or not, it's the principle of "lets see how much money we can beat out of motorists" because we're all evil, CO2 producing, child killing Nazis..


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:31 pm 
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I had the same on Donnas Puma, got a pic of it doing 83mph up the m1, luckily as hers has different alloys and tinted windows and the one in the pic didn't, we got the dealer we brought it off to confirm these mods were on when it left his, and they accepted we wouldn't go the the effort of removing everything just to drive 10mph over the limit.

As i said higher up, no tax/MOT/Licence/Insurance and you should pay a lot more, as us law abiding motorists (ok we're not angles 100% of the time but we got all the above) are the victims, as we pay more to cover the costs of non-payers.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:40 pm 
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they got round the it wasn't me driving excuse by having forward facing cameras to take pictures of the driver too :aargh . would love to get caught by 1 of these in a lhd with me daughter in her seat and toy stearing wheel :rollin


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Location: Chatham, Kent
Coupe: SIII
johnty40 wrote:
they got round the it wasn't me driving excuse by having forward facing cameras to take pictures of the driver too :aargh . would love to get caught by 1 of these in a lhd with me daughter in her seat and toy stearing wheel :rollin


Been watchin the simpsons???? :rollin

Do any other towns have the ill thought out CCTV cars that drive around trying to get ANYONE doing ANYTHING even remotely wrong??? they are.....no point sayin it, you all know what they are haha they park in illegal and often dangerous places to get other people parking/driving where they shouldn't be, and the councils response???? they are doing their job, and are exempt as they are inforcing the law. proof if there ever was any that they all seem to think they above the law.


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:46 pm 
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Picking up a bit of speed
Picking up a bit of speed
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:55 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Sunderland
Coupe: gen3
coupe-moe wrote:
there must be a hole there. is there a law that state you MUST give details when asked for??


Yep. MS90 Failure to give information as to identity of driver etc 6 points


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:04 am 
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My Coupe owns me!
My Coupe owns me!
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:09 pm
Posts: 8970
Location: anywhere in europe at any one time......but mostly sandbach
Coupe: gen3
yet they will drop it if pushed.i know of a coach that went through one and the fine came through,no driver out that day in it.so had to be a fitter.couldnt find out which one.ended up dropped.

got to agree with tatlock.no one is on a pedestal as much as they believe they are.one day you will wake up late,one day you'll be driving along at what you think is the speed limit........and you'll be wrong........and then you'll be fined........and then these people scream injustice but its too late then!
i had a sick child on the bus.really ill.i was rushing him to the hospital and did 36 in a 30.got a fine a week later.appealed cos i had all the proof............and lost.3 points.to me that was a neccersary thing i did.cos it would have taken 15 mins for an ambulance.

just the latest method of persecuting motorists......then dont spend road tax on road repairs anymore..........or road grit even.so wheres it all go.........il tell you.its replacing the lack of tax from smokers since loads gave up.this was bound to come wasnt it? we are the cash cow now,so remember next election...........


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Red-lining
Red-lining

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:01 pm
Posts: 3058
Location: st.helens
Coupe: Other
dosnt matter what happens in the next election, you can vote E.T in for all the good it will do, who ever gets in will need money and do get it we have to pay 1 way or another, theres only 1 way to beat it, emigrate


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Yep, the Coupe is my life
Yep, the Coupe is my life

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:06 pm
Posts: 4148
Location: West Norfolk
Thats what I told you 2 years ago, mate :lol


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:17 pm 
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My Coupe owns me!
My Coupe owns me!
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:09 pm
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Location: anywhere in europe at any one time......but mostly sandbach
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we all know that but emigration is not a likelyhood for most of us


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Red-lining
Red-lining

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:01 pm
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Location: st.helens
Coupe: Other
Rik'n'Vik wrote:
Thats what I told you 2 years ago, mate :lol

still in the back of my mind rik, maybe in a few years eh, if ur going back to oz we can do a mass migration lol


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:37 pm 
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My Coupe owns me!
My Coupe owns me!
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:09 pm
Posts: 8970
Location: anywhere in europe at any one time......but mostly sandbach
Coupe: gen3
australia is getting really hard to get into now-we got relatives there so that helps i suppose!


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 Post subject: Re: Another stealth tax for us motorists
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:38 pm 
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My Coupe owns me!
My Coupe owns me!

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:25 pm
Posts: 5833
i plan to be there by the time im 30. Said that since i was 16.....


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